Two days ago I finally pulled the trigger on my first new car. I’ve been driving my parents old 1992 Accord LX for nearly ten years now, so I kind of have it coming.

Photos

The photos are up at here. Here’s a preview:

Experience

As expected, the car buying experience was not pleasant. I started looking a couple of weeks ago, and contacted at least half a dozen area dealerships for quotes. The responses (and dollar amounts) varied wildly. Some quotes, and some comments, follow:

Richard Pham, Landmark Honda, Alexandria VA

Best price: $22,000 out the door.

This is the first dealership I heard back from, and also by far the most pushy and unpleasant. I’ve received roughly ten emails from Mr. Pham, most of them frenetic and pushy. Here are some samples:

In response to my request for a quote:

———-Original Message ———22000 out the door

2008 CIVIC SI 4 DOOR

BLACK

Yes, he hits ‘Reply’ and starts typing after the ‘Original Message’ line in his email client.

A few hours later:

come buy a CIVIC SI soon

We are going to run out soon

PHAM

As if I’m that fucking stupid. Four dealers in a 25 mile radius, dozens in a 50 miles radius, and I’m to believe I must buy from Richard ASAP or lose out? Does that ever work?

In response to my request for an itemized price quote, round 1:

Let me know if you can come in today

Nice. Very helpful. Queue a snippy email from me.

In response to my (second) request for an itemized price quote, so I can see bullshit little fees like ‘appearance package’ and such:

———-Original Message ———

K/ORD# 83221 08 CIVIC SI 4DR SDN MT IN-STOCK

$1,265.00 BODYSIZE S

EXT/INT CLR NIGHTHAWK BLACK #CYL MPG

SERIAL# 2HGFA55538H711628 LOCATION LIST PRICE 21310.00

Once again, he doesn’t know how to use email properly, and has given me a copy-paste dump from somewhere, which is most definitely not the itemized price quote I asked for.

The next day:

i have a white on too

I only have 2 black and White for this month

So unless you take one of them I cant help you

Well, I’m looking for Galaxy Gray, so I guess you can’t help me. Fine. End of story? NO.

Finally, I got an itemized price quote:

20,216

PLUS 670 DES

385 PROCESSING FEE

673-90 $ tags taxes

total out the door 22,000 va

He then comes back and matches another quote I got for about $600 less, but I ask if he has it in stock:

———-Original Message ———I CAN GET YOU ONE

WHEN CAN YOU COME IN TO SEE ME ?

Ha, now know he doesn’t have the color I want in stock. Having played this came with other dealers, I know quotes for in-stock cars are not honored for cars that must be ordered, though they are happy to let you believe that to get you to come in and test drive. Here’s what I got back when I challenged him on that:

———-Original Message ———When you come in you will pay wat I qouted you

What time ?

Pushy little fucker, isn’t he?

A couple days later (after I already bought my car):

Want to earn your business this week ,

When can you come see me .

We have more cars than any other dealers in the area and wont be undersold

I will beat anyones price you get this week just let me know what it would take to earn your business today

Waiting to hear back from you .

And then:

have you bought a car yet :

Upon hearing I’ve purchased a car already:

Last Night ?

Or Put a deposit ?

Richard Pham

As though he can somehow poach the sale, given that he doesn’t even have the color I want in stock and previously told me he couldn’t help me.

I’m still getting emails from this guy. He’d have to beat the best price by at least $1000 in order for me to give him my business after this level of pushy, unhelpful, and clumsy service.

Basky Nair, Fairfax Honda, Fairfax VA

Best quote: $19810.00 sale price $670 freight $385 processing fee $495 apperance package (waived after further negotiation) $682.40 va tax $49.50 tags

Total (after waived appearance package): $21597

Basky was not pushy, and came in lower than the other quotes I got, so I arranged to come visit him. It turned out he didn’t have Galaxy Gray in stock (not really his fault; I only decided on Galaxy Gray after I set up the appointment), and wanted a commitment to buy before he would order it. Um, no.

I also find the Fairfax Honda facilities unpleasant. They have a large TV playing with the volume cranked up, and each sales rep has a small table at which to deal, not a cube, so there’s absolutely no sense of privacy. Not a place that makes me want to part with my money.

Reginald Roark, Hendrick Honda, Woodbridge VA

Best quote: $23,657 out the door

Reggie had the galaxy gray in stock, but his out the door price was way too high, and he wouldn’t come down. He was helpful, responsive, and not pushy, so it’s a shame I couldn’t give him my business.

Jesse Torreyson, Hagerstown Honda, Hagerstown MD

Best quote: $21850 out the door

Jesse was helpful and was able to nearly match Basky’s quote, plus my father bought his Accord at Hagerstown ten years ago and had a good experience. Jesse had the gray in stock, so I made arrangements and drove all the way to Hagerstown (roughly 1.5 hours). When I got there, it turned out he thought I wanted the Coupe, not the Sedan. He didn’t have the Sedan in stock but his sales manager assured me they would order it for me and honor the quoted price, due to the cock-up.

I test-drove a red SI sedan here, which is what sold me on the car. Unfortunately, when I went to put a deposit down so they could order the color I wanted, the sales manager discovered that he would be charging me full MSRP for anything they have to order, and tried to tell me the SIs were flying off the lot at over MSRP with their cheapo bolt-on aero kits installed. Um, no, walk away.

Ginny Marshall, Herson’s Honda, Rockville MD

Best quote: $22094 out the door plus $200 “free” gas card (about which more later)

I ended up buying from Ginny. There was no pushy bullshit, she had the car she claimed to have, and she came down from her original quote to approach (but certainly not meet) Basky’s quote. I ended up deciding the galaxy gray color was worth $500 extra so I went with her.

I will note a couple of things:

First, the “free” gas card is a scam. I’ll dedicate a separate post to the details of the scam, but had I to do it over again I would not have treated the $200 card as equivalent to $200 cash, which I foolishly did during negotiations.

Second, as usual the finance manager tried to sell me all the bolt-ons like GAP insurance, lo-jack, extended warranty, etc. It’s a long list of shit they want you to buy. I scoffed at everything, but I scoffed extra hard at the $2100 they wanted for an extended warranty out to 6 years/60k miles. The finance manager asked me what I thought a reasonable price was, so I just blurted out “a grand”. She came back with $1600 using her “special employee discount”, and I giggled. Suddenly she became willing to sell it to me “at cost” (yeah, right!) for $1151. After reading over the warranty terms I figured that probably comes out in the wash, and you can get the purchase price refunded at the end of the warranty term if you haven’t used the warranty (and the warranty company is still solvent, though that’s implicit), so I went for it.

Maybe I’m a sucker for even paying that much, but the moral of the story is, the markup on those warranties is so high that they can discount the sale price nearly 50% down to what they will claim is “at cost” but almost surely is not, and still make money. So the real suckers are the guys that say “I’ll take it” to the initial $2100 offer.

Third, they were (surprisingly) able to beat USAA and came back with 5.24% APR financing for 36 months. I offered to put down $4k, and the APR came down to 4.99%. I could’ve paid for the car in cash, but I was advised by my father that having and paying off a car loan could bolster my credit history (which to this point consists entirely of revolving credit accounts), so I figured at that interest rate why not.

I was interested to note that the fine print on the Honda financing contract prohibits alterations to the vehicle without the written permission of the holder of the loan, and requires notification of the holder of the loan if the car is moved out of your state of residence for more than 30 days. I pushed back on this provision and was assured by the finance manager that it only applies to leases, not outright purchases, and yet when I suggested I scratch it out she said it would be rejected. She then called in another sales guy who was rather horrified as he himself had tinted the windows in his Honda-financed car, surely an alteration if ever there was one.

Obviously this language is an ass-covering to help consolidate the legal power of the lender over the lendee. I dont’ really care since I’m not going to mod the car, but it was interesting that 1) I was the first person to actually raise an issue with this language 2) I was told it didn’t apply to me 3) I was told I could not scratch it out notwithstanding 2.

Read the fine print people. That goes double on the extended warranty.

Conclusion

Buying a new car is a battle. You, the good guy, are trying to get a good car at a fair price, with options and incentives that work the way they are represented to work without delving into the fine print and legalese. Car salesmen, the bad guys, are trying to maximize profit. Pay no attention to the sale price, discounts, incentives, etc. The only thing that matters is the out-the-door price. Get an email breakdown of the out-the-door price BEFORE you set foot anywhere, bring the printout with you, and don’t hesitate to show it to competing dealers who are trying to give you the dick-around.

In particular, DO NOT EVER pay for the “appearance package”. Do not let them back off from an out-the-door quote. No matter how badly you want the car, and how sick you are of the process, if you do not walk out the moment they start the bait-and-switch, you lose and they win.

Also be sure you know ahead of time about the latest scam tricks. I wish I’d read about the “free” gas card scam before I went shopping, as I could’ve saved a couple hundred more dollars.

All that said, I’m happy to have my new car, and I paid under MSRP so I at least know there are people out there who paid more than me for the same car.

UPDATE: My write-up on the “free” gas card scam is here